OK great. Now for step 2. Watch your youTube video, maybe a couple times if necessary, and write down for us your self-criticism. Which times sounded clean & in time to you remembering that you were to play only 16th notes for about 5 minutes? Which times sounded off? Which times were you correctly playing 16th notes? Which times did you drift into (approximate) triplets, or something else entirely?

Obviously I'm the non-music teacher fool of this group, but I have lots of experience in teaching people how to do very technical things (mathematics, actuarial science, computer programming). I've found this to be a CRUCIAL exercise for learning. I can't emphasize it enough. If you can't detect on your own what you can do well from what you can't, progress will be very slow and you may ultimately fizzle out. Don't fizzle out. Now sure, many people have to be guided up to a certain level by a more experienced person before they can self-criticize, but the real learning doesn't really start until one gets there. Everything before that time is just learning fundamentals.

Finally, if you do feel that you could do better with this after a bit more warming up, that's cool. Just post another version of the exact same content later on, including written self-criticism. Don't criticize yourself while you're playing; you have to do it afterwards.

Edit: PS, if any teachers out there feel I'm being the opposite of helpful, tell me to shut up and I will. I personally love getting feedback, so I guess I tend to try to give it too when I think I can.

My left hand is in bed with my right hand. It was just a demonstration on one string as I was attempting the speeds you were mentioning, which, are insanely fast and you are WAY off on thinking that you are playing at those speeds but...keep pushing forward. At least you are trying. I would just like to see you have the right concept of the timing. It seems your timing is not what you think it is. Slow it WAY down.

Bucket who?

Left hand fingers curved and thumb behind the neck as low as I can put and play efficiently. However,my pinky tends to point upwards when I am playing above the 17th fret. How does everyone play on the higher frets? Please advise.

I have been playing the trill exercises for a while now. I also play the trill exercises that Pebber has using pick only(without trilling) like in the beginning of the video below. Here I have a video of Four Finger Trill exercise using Open Strings, 2 notes per beat at 225 beats per second.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1pjMTsSOas&feature=youtu.be

The finger curvature looks like pebbers when he plays...So you must be doing pretty well (-; You are not alone in your complaints regarding the upper register...I encounter things up there that bother me to.

Hey everyone,
I'm a new student of Pebber's. I have however been watching this forum closely for quite some time already
and you seem to keep pushing each other to play better. Dedication. Just love it.

Please have a look at this video. I'm not showcasing any superhuman speeds here, for starters I would like to know whether the motion performed is indeed Sarod, so that I know that I grasp the technique completely, before shedding something similar but worse. I have included a close-up as well, I hope the angle is any good.

Feedback is greatly appreciated and scrutiny of my playing is a must! Thank you for your time.

Kind regards,

Toon

Wells It definitely looks like Sarod to me, um I am hearing weird sounds that pick makes, I think this part is just a phase that all prospective Sarodites must go through. I remember having to work around similar undesireable picking chirps...actually here in this old vid is were the same was happening to me (-:....@ 6:15 in this old vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd5T8BwxZTM...I am making a video right now to show what sort of things/exercises I have done been in the 8 months btw then and now to mentally and physically cultivate the flutter mindset. Really work it man, turn off any part of your brain that is not screaming "I AM getting this shit down, one way or another its MUST happen" because there was much time during the past 8 months that I encountered great diffuculty with this technique and the resultant frustration almost turned to despair. I want you to get this technique and to be a happy individual in btw now and the time that you can flutter like the oud players of olde; so i'll try and get the vid up as quickly as possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fybVWhzkQV0&feature=youtu.be

Yeah youtube is giving me crap right now which makes it very hard to get new content up; Apparantly DJ so and so from God-knows where has alleged 3rd party content that was triggered by some of the super repetative single string patterns from the module 1 picking stuff. I submited a dispute on in but youtube needs to get their act together

The motion looks right. But it gets stiff over time. Relax it more. Tension is the enemy. All in all, good job mate! Now, go practice it for 15 years!

Quote: TheCraft wrote in post #163

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Hey everyone,
I'm a new student of Pebber's. I have however been watching this forum closely for quite some time already
and you seem to keep pushing each other to play better. Dedication. Just love it.

Please have a look at this video. I'm not showcasing any superhuman speeds here, for starters I would like to know whether the motion performed is indeed Sarod, so that I know that I grasp the technique completely, before shedding something similar but worse. I have included a close-up as well, I hope the angle is any good.

Feedback is greatly appreciated and scrutiny of my playing is a must! Thank you for your time.

Kind regards,

Toon

---

Hey Nick - I've just re-watched the video you posted in response to dlraben. He asked you to critique it yourself, and you replied that you were happy with it, since everything you played was as you intended (paraphrasing here).

I'm speaking as someone who has been in a similar position to you (maybe most of us have?), where my desire for speed has blunted my critical faculties occasionally.

When I listen to your video, I hear, even at the slowest speed, that somewhere between 30-50% of your notes are not sounding correctly. I suggest you nail this at the slow speed before moving on. I seem to recall that elsewhere on this forum you mentioned you have Stetina's Speed Mechanics For Lead Guitar. I work from that book too - I think it has some excellent advice about ensuring you play as precisely as possible at slow speeds, in order to keep accurate when playing faster.

There's also an extremely good passage on identifying your weaknesses and creating exercises tailored to yourself to enable you to improve them. I'm only just beginning to realize how important this is myself - I believe this is what dlraben was alluding to in his post when he talked about the student being able to self-criticise, and therefore learn.

(I might also add that, towards the end of the video, when you're playing quickly, it seems to me that you're no longer really playing along with the metronome.)

Given how much time and effort you've devoted to this, I know this might sound discouraging (it felt so to me when Ursin and Pebber pointed out something similar to me). It's not so much that you need to apply yet *more* effort, rather just apply the effort in a slightly different way, and understand that the speed may not come as quickly as you might hope.

Cliff, very well written. I agree entirely with your assessment of the video, and the part about everyone having to learn how to actually learn.

We're obviously all born with the ability to learn, but then at some point in our lives we kind of lose it. It takes a nice pride-swallowing to be able to gain it back. But if/when you do, the sky is the limit! Unfortunately, not everyone does. I have several extremely brilliant colleagues that just refuse to listen to anyone else speak. They hear a few words, form an opinion and then stop listening. Needless to say, they have remained stagnant in their positions for 10+ years.

Anyway, it was nice to see you respond to this one. I was actually wondering a couple days ago where you went.

-Damon

PS, I have that book too and I still can't understand how he plays some of the example licks at 160. I wish I knew if that was pushing the envelope for him, or whether 200+ would have been no problem. Anyway, aside from yearly speed progress check-ins--which I track by writing in the book--I have abandoned it and turned 100% to the teachings of Pebber and Ursin.

It seems we have gotten WAY off track...but we're coming back around, thankfully.

I remember Pebber telling me a long time what virtuoso speed is. But, I had forgotten so I checked with him yesterday.

Virtuoso speed is considered 16th notes at 144bpm/32nd notes at 72bpm. This is the standard level.

16th notes at 270bpm?

And please, I hope to discourage long winded ranting about music theory. If you have a music theory question, please ask. But I would implore you to refrain from going on and on about theory gibberish that is off topic and trying to enlighten me as to how much theory you know.

We are not dissecting Bach chorales on this forum.

Thanks

Hey Damon - glad you agree with me agreeing with you :).

Thanks for asking about me: I haven't posted much recently because I don't really feel like I've made much progress. Despite that, I've just put something up on the tapping thread.

I really like the Stetina book. But there's definitely some more technical aspects of playing that he doesn't go into, but to which I've found answers here. I tend not to read it too much anymore, but I've memorized a good few exercises and still play them periodically. I also find that when I *do* re-read it, there's always some hidden gem that didn't click with me before, but suddenly seems useful.

Ursin - funny what you and Pebber say about virtuoso speed. 144bpm is the speed that my tab says Crazy Train should be played at. It's interesting to note that Rhoads typically picks the 16th notes, but the faster sextuplet parts are nearly all legato. It's been my ambition to be able to play this for the last three years or so. I think I'm now beginning to realize that, with the limited amount of time I devote to practice, I may not reach that goal.

Thanks for you feedback, Ursin. And you too, Nicholas.

Tension is the enemy! A few more questions to all sarod practitioners arise.

First of all, at 1:46 into the video, I inserted an arrow pointing at the part of my forearm that is touching the guitar. The question is, should it? I figure that it might obstruct the floating motion, but it seems easier to develop the necessary muting techniques...

And secondly, the pick noise of which you speak. Aside from less tension, is it the pick angle that needs to be readjusted in order to get rid of it? Kind of like a 'sweet spot'?

Quote: TheCraft wrote in post #173

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Thanks for you feedback, Ursin. And you too, Nicholas.

Tension is the enemy! A few more questions to all sarod practitioners arise.

First of all, at 1:46 into the video, I inserted an arrow pointing at the part of my forearm that is touching the guitar. The question is, should it? I figure that it might obstruct the floating motion, but it seems easier to develop the necessary muting techniques...

And secondly, the pick noise of which you speak. Aside from less tension, is it the pick angle that needs to be readjusted in order to get rid of it? Kind of like a 'sweet spot'?

---

If Pebber says 32nd @ 72 B.P.M. is virtuosso speed threshold; then I will accept that as the ruler for measuring virtuosso speed. I am curious though, does he mean 32nds that are all picked, or does that not factor in? Given what the kids on youtube are capable of these days, that measurement seems to allow many into the category of virtuosso. Also where does that leave people like Pebber, Frakh, and from the 32nds @ 140(ish) that I saw in your video regarding the 270 B.P.M. tangent yourself aswell Ursin...It is obvious to me from every video that I see involving any of you three that you ARE IN FACT capable of far more than than the afforementioned threshold. When it comes to the subject of virtuosity, I suspect that in addition to the capacity for speed, there is some qualities about (virtuossic) playing that are much more difficult to quantify. A creative/innovative element that makes that person a pioneer of their respective instrument. I imagine that there are other things that play into it as well (things that my ears are not yet sophisticated enough to pick up on) It just seems like a pretty low place for the bar to be. Also on a closing note, if I have come across as arrogant or adversarial in any prior posts to this, it has not been my intention. I direct this in particular to you Ursin/Pebber. I cling to every piece of info I can get from you guys (-: