Darryn, nah, no envy from me. Not anymore. I've busted my ass too much in other areas of my life to be envious of someone else busting ass in theirs. I just root them on and hope they never quit. Hard work = rewards. However, I'd venture a guess that it's infinitely harder to make a living as a musician than it is in my career. Of course, no kid on earth grows up dreaming to be what I am either...

Thanks for dropping knowledge into this thread PB.

Diraben; Dude; You have made my day and helped me burst through a technical issue that was becoming very frustrating; Thank you so much! I was starting to use my middle finger as a support for my first finger, could have gone down a long winding path there. Thanks again for the clarification, you hit the nail on the head, and your video has made me a very happy musician. I was at a gig this weekend, playing outside and integrating scalpel control into my my playing on the fly. Awesome! I will get it...

Underoche, Thanks for the feedback, I figure that Scalpel is the key, thank you for confirming that it is indeed a tech that envelopes the requirements for playing guitar.

Pebber Brown: Thanks for the post; VERY useful information. Your info is something I could have used a good twenty years ago. I actually studied with some Berklee guitarists; Their picking was adequate, but they could not explain what they were doing. I love how you've quantified stuff. The structure and labelling of these techniques is really overlooked by pretty much all guitarists, teachers and players alike. Yet drummers are all about grips and such being 'a certain way' We guitarists are a bit willy nilly...

Everyone else; PLEASE DO POST PROGRESS VIDEOS and comments and observations... How the heck else are we supposed to learn? And thanks in advance!

Quote: dlraben wrote in post #36

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Scott, in this one I show what I meant in case my PM to you wasn't quite clear.

Nick, here's the forums 20th+ attempt, and my 3rd or 4th attempt, to tell you that you're practicing incorrectly. None of us can really know for sure whether you're improving slowly, or whether you're flat out wasting your time. The three (most important?) things that you really need to work on are 1) improving your audio quality so your guitar and metronome can be heard clearly, 2) PLAYING IN TIME, and 3) reading, pondering, appreciating, and implementing any and all feedback you receive. It's only well after doing that when one can possibly understand WHY someone gave it to you and whether it was good or bad feedback for your personal development. You shouldn't have a clue whether it's good 15-20 minutes after someone gives it to you. You don't do seem to ever do this.

No one dislikes you personally. None of us even knows you at all. DON'T TAKE FEEDBACK PERSONALLY. We are all unknown to each other (for the most part). The only common thread we share is that we all want to excel at playing music using the guitar.

So forget all this other teenage behavior (who can play faster than who, who understand some non-practical archaic piece of music theory, etc., etc.) and sign on to the imaginary contract that all other posters seem to have signed. Help other posters on topics that you have ALREADY obtained proficiency in. Ask other posters for help on topics that you recognize you need to improve upon. And consider staying silent otherwise! I'll repeat what I've told you already, you're running the risk of forum posters just flat out ignoring you. (Heck, I'm running that risk myself in typing this to you). But consider that and figure out if that's something you would be happy with. I suspect it's not.

Anyway, I hope this helps someone. Now back to my morning coffee...

Edit: Nick, I see you've edited your last post to be a bit more tame. Kudos to you for doing that!!

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Heres a short I cliped today with 3 N.P.S Sarod Sixteenths and Sextuplets @ 120 B.P.M...Ala Paul Gilbert...I am very sorry if the guitar isnt loud enough for anyone...But I gotta be careful because I am living in a highly toxic and (possibly abusive? I dunno...) environment right now, and because I dont wanna get screamed at in demeaning ways and mocked for practicing guitar 24/7 as I am currently doing, by the person that I am currently stuck living with, I have to keep the amp volume very docile for fear of her hearing me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2FFFhBlSxY

Hey Nicholas I'll be honest, things don't look or sound too pretty on the video. On your right hand it looks like the way you hold the pick is really tense and your picking motions are WAY too large and inefficient. I'm not an expert on sarod picking, but the motion doesn't resemble what Pebber teaches from what I've seen. I suggest you go back to the videos on scalpel picking and make an honest evaluation. One of the greatest reasons to learn scalpel picking is that it focuses on picking grip and relaxation straight from the get go. In my opinion: It doesn't matter if you even use scalpel picking in the long run. The sort of foundation that the principles of scalpel picking lay are incredibly important to building your picking hand. This foundation I'm talking about is a relaxed grip and complete control of your picking by focusing on what happens at the very tip of the pick hitting the strings. All the best alternate pickers, doesn't matter from what school of thought they follow, have an incredible relaxed and precise grip; I can drown you in hundreds of videos proving this upon request.

Nick, I could hear you in this one. I'm afraid I agree with Joel when he wrote that it doesn't look or sound too pretty. I think he was being a bit kind... He offered his own thoughts on what it looked like, so instead of that I'll offer some of my own thoughts on what it sounded like. I'll do it a bit differently so as to provide you some guidance not on what's bad, but on how to go about making it good.

You issued the board a challenge further up in this thread, so now it's time for me/us to issue you one back. I'm not joking, I'm asking for you to actually do this. This is more important that ANY other practice routine you have going. Totally drop everything else in your practice routine until you're done.

Dig up Pebber's videos pertaining to picking on one string, and play with it at least twice. You're looking for the one(s) where you set your metronome to 50 or 60 bpm and then play quarter notes (1 pick per click) for a long time. Then while keeping the metronome the same, you do 2 picks per click, then 3, etc., up to at least 8. This is not your challenge.

This is your challenge. For 5 minutes each, pick 1, 2, ..., 8 notes per click. I don't care what picking technique you use, that's not your goal. Your goal is to have the struck note coincide with the click so that the click can't be heard (set volumes accordingly here). This isn't metaphorical. I literally mean that after setting reasonable amp & metronome volumes, you should not hear the metronome. DON'T change the speed on the metronome. I mean it. If you do, you fail the challenge. Until you pass the challenge, I think I am going to stop giving you feedback (which could be something you actually want)!

Record your very first pass through this. In this first pass you'll do 5 minutes for quarter notes, 5 minutes for eighth notes, 5 minutes for triplets, etc. Stop at 32nd notes (8 picks per click) for now, so that's 5 x 8 = 40 minutes for one pass. No TV. No internet. NO FRETTING HAND. No dreaming of Buckethead. No drifting off into space. Save this 40 minute video and label it pass 1. It's for your eyes/ears only. We don't want to see it. Seriously. Then go do whatever you want for 20 minutes. DO NOT PICK in those 20 minutes. Let the sound of that metronome go away. (If I were doing this, I'd down a beer.)

No recording now, turn off your webcam. Do another 8 passes, another 8 x 40 = 320 minutes (another 8 beers?). Take as many days as you need, but don't skip days.

Now on your 10th pass, turn that webcam on again. Another 40 minutes, another video for your ears only, label it pass 10. Watch each 5 minute set of each video and compare them (quarter notes pass 1, then pass 10, then compare. eighth notes pass 1, then pass 10, then compare. Etc.). You should hear differences. If you can't hear differences, then either you didn't improve (because you cheated in some way) or you still can't hear the timing yet. EITHER WAY means you need to do another 10 passes; saving only pass 20.

The number of passes that everyone needs is different. Don't be surprised if you have to do 50+ passes. Some people need more passes for 5- & 7- picks per click than the others. You be your own judge. Sure, this is boring. But until you can HEAR your own timing, you are totally sunk. You will absolutely never get good. Believe it. Period.

By the way, you really don't need to post status updates on this. Since if done properly this challenge will improve your timing so starkly, all of us will be able to hear the improvement in every video you post.

I think dlraben and Joel are offering up sound advice here. You have to slow down. WAY down. And take it at a snails pace. Very slowly.

Speed is not everything on guitar. It's only one very small piece of a much larger design. Speed almost means nothing and you should forget about it.

Something I like to do when practicing, Nick, along uderoche's idea, is to riff a song I know. I'll play to the metronome, and focus on accentuating strokes/notes like ONE-two-three-four or one-two-THREE, whatever the song requires. But what I do is when it's too fast for me, let's say it's 4 per click like ONE-two-three-four, is I'll play it ONE-two-three in beat with the metronome. I'll keep the accentuated note but remove something else. I also sit with a power-chord and do one-two-THREE, with one-two as muted notes on the fatter string, and THREE as the powerchord on both strings. For 4/4, do it on 1 click, wait 3, do it again, and after 20 minutes, try do it on click 1 and 3. Do that for 20. Then try every click, at some point. It's okay to go crazy picking and riff out of time till a string breaks. I do it lots for release. It's to me a necessary balance to the disciplined practice described in this post and by others posts. But the disciplined practice is a must. You will get literally nowhere without it, and need to practice within your bounds, which will gradually expand and lead to, among other things, a greater speed, but foremost: a better sound.

Quote: Tom wrote in post #59

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Something I like to do when practicing, Nick, along uderoche's idea, is to riff a song I know. I'll play to the metronome, and focus on accentuating strokes/notes like ONE-two-three-four or one-two-THREE, whatever the song requires. But what I do is when it's too fast for me, let's say it's 4 per click like ONE-two-three-four, is I'll play it ONE-two-three in beat with the metronome. I'll keep the accentuated note but remove something else. I also sit with a power-chord and do one-two-THREE, with one-two as muted notes on the fatter string, and THREE as the powerchord on both strings. For 4/4, do it on 1 click, wait 3, do it again, and after 20 minutes, try do it on click 1 and 3. Do that for 20. Then try every click, at some point. It's okay to go crazy picking and riff out of time till a string breaks. I do it lots for release. It's to me a necessary balance to the disciplined practice described in this post and by others posts. But the disciplined practice is a must. You will get literally nowhere without it, and need to practice within your bounds, which will gradually expand and lead to, among other things, a greater speed, but foremost: a better sound.

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70 bpm, a short video of where i'm now with scalpel picking. i do practice longer than this. more than one hour per day.

Ashan

Try to slow it down and find the 1. Follow along with these Pebber vids. Start here. Play along with these vids.

Module 1 Overview 1A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgahMF-mbHQ

Module 1 Overview 1B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD5fQQD06R4

Module 1 Practical Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcvshknW-0o

Module 1 Practical Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQhoxSfbbMs

Hi
My picking has improved a lot since I started lessons with Pebber. It feels more natural and faster. I have watched Module 1 videos multiple times and have implemented palm muting picking everytime I play. I find it harder to Palm Mute on the higher strings and my picking hand feels more tensed. Here I have Two Finger Ladder Exercise Lesson 5.56 Finger Group (1---2) 3 fret distance at 190 bps.


Please start the video at 1:40

http://youtu.be/sQPplB2BeeE

Diego, I think Ursin's your man for feedback on this one.

But, does your fretting wrist ever hurt after a long session? Your angle seems quite harsh so I'm concerned that it might at some point. I really have no idea what I'm talking about here though. While you're practicing, I wonder if it would be safer for you to shorten your strap and tilt the neck higher just to be safe?

I'd also be interested in seeing how well you can pivot with very wide distances (not necessarily 1 & 2 anymore, but maybe your most extreme 1 & 4 ladders). The reason I wonder this is because I thought it looked like your fretting hand thumb was sort of pointed at the headstock instead of parallel to the fret wire. I think mine points that way a little (maybe 45 degrees or so) when I get to the upper frets out of necessity, but I think I'm very close to parallel to the fret wire in positions 1-12ish.

I too can't seem to get a reliable palm muting technique on the high-E, or occasionally B-strings. I really need to change my natural picking hand positioning away from what feels natural to get that.

Diego

Raise the strap of the guitar. Try to keep your frethand wrist and forearm straight or as straight as possible. Keep all fingers curved...even the 4th finger. Keep pick hand fingers in your palm and away from strings.

Sometimes, you may see vids of me with my strap lower but I NEVER practice like this. I may do it at a gig. I practice 4 or 5 hours a day everyday. A gig may be once a month for 2hrs. If you continue to practice the way you are you are going to develop serious carpal tunnel syndrome. It's not fun. It hurts.

Once you have the correct position (guitar strapped higher, all 4 fingers curved, pick hand fingers inside palm and away from strings) then watch these videos and follow along.

Module 1 Overview 1A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgahMF-mbHQ

Module 1 Overview 1B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD5fQQD06R4

Module 1 Practical Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcvshknW-0o

Module 1 Practical Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQhoxSfbbMs

I'm not one to comment, really, but I think your fretting hand needs to hit the strings quicker/sooner. About angle and all that with your hands, I wouldn't know. I grew up with some insanely fast pickers, and I'm not sure what I could piece in common that they have, except putting in a lot of work. All I could say is when you practice a certain way, you get good at it after so long ... and the older we get, the better it is to "know" the right way to practice. Some folks seem to find the right way off the bat. I hate them. ;-) I look at videos and see people playing with their hands clearly hung down right across the strings at whatever angle that makes it ... does it work for me? I don't know. Hasn't so far. If I play long enough that way? Probably. :-) Sorry for rambling. :-)

I used to have my strap pretty low but then my picking shoulder started hurting a few weeks ago. The reason i figured out was that I was moving my picking arm while changing the strings. I was also picking very close to the bridge and that made my picking while string changing uncomfortable. I also realized that only a small part of my picking hand was resting on the body because the strap was very low and I was forced to pick close to the bridge pickup rather than in between the pickups.

I did raise the strap and now I have more part of my hand resting on the body and picking between the pickups is much easier. Its probably the camera angle that makes it look like my strap is very low. I do try to keep the fingers curved in but my pinky sucks and I can't really curve it while stretching the fretting fingers. I promise I'm still working on it.

I haven't hurt my fretting wrist until now but my shoulders. I think my thumb tends to point towards the headstock when I stretch my fingers. I will make a video with a better camera angle for the the fingers 1 and 4 in a few weeks.

I appreciate all the suggestions and I will work on it.

You know, a friend that's pretty fast has a slightly so-so pinky-finger technique when it doesn't follow the ring-finger. He, you, I, and the rest of us could always curve it better -- and probably should strive for it -- but I think the main thing is that you're practicing. And my shoulder-blades hurt like heck often, so I'll often switch up the angle of the guitar from pointing sideways to pointing at the ceiling. :-)

Take this with a grain of salt, but here's my cred on this. First, I have a torn labrum in my left shoulder which I've chose to deal with through physical therapy and consciously thinking about tension in my shoulder muscles and second, my wife has been a licensed physical therapist for over 12 years...

Those of you that have shoulder problems when practicing are LESS likely to have this because you are draping a 6-12 pound guitar around them and MORE likely to have this because you are tensing the muscles that connect from the top of your shoulder and your neck (upper traps). Stated more simply, you are shrugging your shoulder(s) up instead of letting it naturally fall to your side in a totally relaxed position.

Diego, don't mess around with that fretting hand wrist angle man. Carpal tunnel is like a game-changing-can't-play situation if you get it bad. If you need to at first, sit down when you practice to get that forearm/wrist as straight as possible. Wouldn't it suck for you to get sick good after 10 years practice only to not be able to play anymore?

Edit: Just showed your video to my wife to make sure I wasn't bs'ing. She says your wrist has to change, and also said it looks like your really shrugging your picking hand shoulder. She also said that while it's hard to see, you look like you're really having to look down with your neck. She says in the long run that can also lead to neck, shoulder & back problems. She says it would be better to have a completely straight neck and to try to see what you're doing with a mirror, web-cam, or by raising the neck so you're looking more sideways than down. Anyway, sorry for the rant here....

You're probably right. Should focus on relaxation like you say -- as I sit down all the time while playing anyways. I've wrestled for quite a lot of years and there'd be no reason for the muscles to get tired from exhaustion. I mean, it's some sort of exhaustion alright, but a very minute one, and should be an indicator to relax somewhere when playing the guitar.

Quote: dlraben wrote in post #69

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Take this with a grain of salt, but here's my cred on this. First, I have a torn labrum in my left shoulder which I've chose to deal with through physical therapy and consciously thinking about tension in my shoulder muscles and second, my wife has been a licensed physical therapist for over 12 years...

Those of you that have shoulder problems when practicing are LESS likely to have this because you are draping a 6-12 pound guitar around them and MORE likely to have this because you are tensing the muscles that connect from the top of your shoulder and your neck (upper traps). Stated more simply, you are shrugging your shoulder(s) up instead of letting it naturally fall to your side in a totally relaxed position.

Diego, don't mess around with that fretting hand wrist angle man. Carpal tunnel is like a game-changing-can't-play situation if you get it bad. If you need to at first, sit down when you practice to get that forearm/wrist as straight as possible. Wouldn't it suck for you to get sick good after 10 years practice only to not be able to play anymore?

Edit: Just showed your video to my wife to make sure I wasn't bs'ing. She says your wrist has to change, and also said it looks like your really shrugging your picking hand shoulder. She also said that while it's hard to see, you look like you're really having to look down with your neck. She says in the long run that can also lead to neck, shoulder & back problems. She says it would be better to have a completely straight neck and to try to see what you're doing with a mirror, web-cam, or by raising the neck so you're looking more sideways than down. Anyway, sorry for the rant here....

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Diego...sit down. Put the guitar on your left leg. Fix the strap so that, when you stand up, the guitar is in the same position as when you were seated.

thanks ursin :) i'll practice along those vids. i was trying a lesson off pebbers dvd trying to hide the click disappear :)

Ashan; Pretty awesome, man! Clearly this technique works (Scalpel)!

Here's a quick update on where I'm at; (Thanks to everyone who's posted, the info has been invaluable!)

I've since modified my practice routine to include the "Rhythm Pyramid" and of course, a modified positioning of my right hand. Heck, It's really only been a week but my max sustained tremolo is 176 (With the feeling that I could go much faster over time...). It won't be long and I will be able to match myself, only with what I believe to be better articulation, speed, control and timing. It's a lot of work, to be sure but I'm getting it. I've also been doing only upstrokes, and only downstrokes as I found my upstroke was quite a bit weaker, also hitting all 16th note rhythms. The practice routine looks like this after I do some chord work and ears stuff;

1234 (Up and down each string, and across all 6 strings "then up a fret repeat" 16ths at 144 BPM
Open string Tremolo in time - 16ths at 176 BPM
Rhythm Pyramid - 80 BPM
Powerchord Doublenote thing - 16ths at 116 BPM (Basically FCFC picking 2 notes each)
1 Octave Major Scales - 16ths at 116 BPM
Paul Gilbert Intense Rock 1 Video exercises - Roughly 80 BPM Mostly 16th note triplet stuff...

I go through some other stuff after that, try to jam with some tunes, maybe play some licks I like. Really, I'm just trying to take what I can already do, and get as comfortable (Or more!) using Scalpel picking. I'm in a kind of wierd transition state playing-wise right now, hahaha

Eventually I'll pursue Sarod, but I just don't feel ready for it, feels kinda weird, and I'm already still working out my grips with Scalpel.

Not sure how useful this would be to you, but in regards to a more powerful upstroke, I recalled this video with a riff designed to strengthen it:

http://youtu.be/KVFhHbjGmy0