Quote: andygelband wrote in post #204Ok - thanks for the info. I know this sounds like a stupid question.....but how do you position your hand correctly.....I guess it's just practice but as I've always pivotted to pick, finding the string with a floating hand is going to be a particular challenge.
The floating hand is a challenge but it will come around with much practice. Actually, the floating of the hand is a huge part of it...along with the actual twisting motion.
I guess the motion (in its broadest context) is more akin to strumming.....I guess what I'm trying to say (badly) is that I strum, accurately and with the dynamics I choose, without pivotting.....so I just have to get used to it.
When doing the motion I feel some lactic acid in the forearm muscles....googling it looks like the brachioradialis....which is the one that helps twist the forearm so that makes sense. I assume that so long as I take regular breaks, the muscles will become conditioned to the movement and so the discomfort will go away along with the tension?
Yes, the burning sensation in the forearm muscles is normal and will go away after much repetition. There are lots of videos on youtube by Pebber and Frakh dealing with sarod. I would investigate these. Using a small weight or a heavy book to help build the forearm muscles has been suggested and works very well. But again, know your limits and don't hurt yourself.
Quote: pebberbrown wrote in post #151Heres a guy doing Van Halen Style tremolo picking which is almost IDENTICAL in every way to Sarod picking except these Van Halen guys are only doing it on single string - never any scales or multiple strings. But the motion is the same - this is good footage and this guy has it down (on one string). Eddie footage is all over YouTube and I dont have time to sift through the mass amount of it to find the passages where he does the tremolo picking but its there if anyone wants to spend the time looking for it.
Here you go sir.....I'm a complete noob to Sarod but there is a lovely moment around 1:20 where he changes from standard picking to Sarod style.....what do you think?
Ok - thanks for the info. I know this sounds like a stupid question.....but how do you position your hand correctly.....I guess it's just practice but as I've always pivotted to pick, finding the string with a floating hand is going to be a particular challenge.
I guess the motion (in its broadest context) is more akin to strumming.....I guess what I'm trying to say (badly) is that I strum, accurately and with the dynamics I choose, without pivotting.....so I just have to get used to it.
When doing the motion I feel some lactic acid in the forearm muscles....googling it looks like the brachioradialis....which is the one that helps twist the forearm so that makes sense. I assume that so long as I take regular breaks, the muscles will become conditioned to the movement and so the discomfort will go away along with the tension?
He's been discussed elsewhere on your forum. He's a very good side to side wrist action alternate picker. Not promoting him or putting him down - I'm all about the peace and love
I'm working from home....well supposed to be working but can't put down this Sarod thing.....loving it!
Thanks guys. Damon - I have seen the videos of PB doing the different techniques. I'm a bit of a guitar whore so I'm constantly checking out songs and videos and techniques and then something will make me focus on one of these. I've been looking at PB's things for a couple of years...(but I've only just started applying myself to it)...and in fact, not sure if you've ever had one of 'those' moments. For me it's a memory of a jam with an old group I played for where for a few seconds my picking just flowed and I was playing some pretty fast and clean lines without any effort at all....looking back I wonder whether my posture just 'lucked' into Sarod for a bit....and then was gone.
Darryn - to be fair to Claus (wizard of shred) and myself, there are no unwarranted claims for the majority of people. He says that his methods (breaking down practice into different challenges) and carrying them out in a completely relaxed manner that is drilled into your muscle memory will give you advances in one month of intensive practice that will prove to you that you can break previous barriers in speed. Many players I have seen (or even taught) could benefit from clean 'standard' alternate technique, without noise, playing in time, started slow and a methodical, consistent practice regime. It's just that I am so OCD about my playing that I had already carried most of what he was positioning so it didn't really apply to me.
General points:
I believe that different people have different natural speed and abilities. For example, I have never been able to do that age old fast strum flourish at the end of a number that is (or was) so common.
Some people can reach amazing speed alternate picking. I can't. It's uncontrolled, but in bursts, with Sarod, I can already exceed my alternate picking speeds so I see plenty to make me focus on Sarod.
I don't doubt PB saying that alternate picking is a very uneconomical way of achieving high speed. I've watched his videos several times where he talks about Paco de Lucia, Al di Meola and John McLaughlin and how Al started adopting John's Sarod technique in 1983...very interesting.
More broadly, I see in several threads references to videos....eg the sweep picking thread....but I can't see the teaching example in the thread....is there a way to browse this forum or some other method I've been too stupid to spot in order to find the examples that are being referenced?
Thanks for that I've taken a read through - I'm not entirely there in my understanding. I don't stiff arm pick on the guitar anymore - thankfully. I do use strict alternate wrist stuff and I have my eye on Sarod picking - already getting somewhere as per my other post which you are more than welcome to comment on
From Pebber's reply on Scott's thread it seems that the scalpel picking advantage is as much about relaxing the hand (not locking the thumb stiff) which makes a lot of sense in terms of tension being a bad thing generally, as it is about combining the scalpel picking with other techniques.
What I'm not clear on is if I am just to relax my hand and use scalpel picking integrated with 'wrist' alternate picking.....or replace it with scalpel alone (that would take some time, not saying I wouldn't do it) or to use different techniques for different circumstances.
Perhaps for another time, the reason for my questioning right at the beginning is a month I dedicated to the Wizard of Shred Alternate picking programme.....didn't work for me....the guy was friendly and helpful and refunded the money after the month, but I invested a lot of time I consider as wasted so don't want to waste any more time by practising incorrectly....
Cheers, Andy
Ps - what do I call you? dlraben doesn't trip off the tongue!
Just going through PB's daily practice videos. I hate to be obtuse, but I'm not clear on the use of scalpel picking.
Now please don't get me wrong, I used to move the pick with my fingers alone as part of my playing around 10 years ago when I teach got me to eradicate it in an attempt to improve my 'standard' alternate picking speed and technique.
When PB is doing his single string exercises he says to use scalpel picking.
My question is whether that should be used all the time, or in combination with side to side wrist when practising or something else? I don't have a problem either way, I just want to practice correctly and of course to understand the reasoning behind anything I'm doing.
I understand (to the level I need right now) the differences and reasons behind alternate picking vs sarod....but not the scalpel picking thing.
Although I do have a theory that it could be good for speedy alternate picking with string jumps.....for example, picking every note of a piece like the outro from Bark at the Moon [[File:bark outro.JPG|none|auto]] What do you think?
Sarod newbie here.....30 years of playing guitar....never happy with my alternate picking speed. I play and have played everything from funk and reggae to jazzy/latin and all kinds of rock genres. My main thing at the moment is an original prog rock band and my right hand technique is limiting me in creating some of the riffs / song ideas that are stuck in my head!
I've studied PB's videos and am trying to cultivate this new technique. I'm just doing a little a day as I want to keep relaxed, keep it fresh and hope it just 'clicks'.
A couple of observations that I hope you guys can assist me with:
1. When I alternate pick I tend to use the 3rd or 4th finger of the right hand as a guide resting lightly on the guitar. When I try Sarod, I don't do this but find it helps letting those same fingers that are now curled under 'brush' the face of the guitar to help guide/position the right hand? Is this ok? I appreciate there is a fine line between a person's natural way of doing things and contradicting perhaps how a technique is supposed to work.
2. Swan wrist....I tend to do this but am trying to keep the hand as flat as possible for fear of introducing unnecessary tension or damaging the wrist by locking it.....am I worry about nothing?
3. Finally, on a more positive note, when the Sarod thing is getting there, and I'm picking faster than I normally would, I notice that my alternate picking is better to. I attribute this to both the psychological aspects and relaxation. I read somewhere how a tense left hand could lead to a tense right hand and vice versa....and this makes a lot of sense.
Anyhow, good to meet you all, hope to chat more soon
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