i,v had a spider 4 and spidervalve ,the spider 4 has more fx and souns just as good as the much more expensive spidervalve ,and i tried a Vyper but unlike the spider 4 the vypers noise gate is supposed to be self adjusting ,,,it might as well not have a gate ,noisy!!! the spider has an adjustable gate you can get silence with minamul tweaking.its great! all in all ,im glad to see im not the only one who,s constantly searching for a beter sound ,,,i,v spent so much on amps and fx ,its rediculess